Medical Intuitive, Functional Medicine Doctor, Functional Medicine New York, Manhattan

“If you can allow the sexual energy to flow… it brings more positive sexual energy your way”

     Karen BK Chan     

Dr. Veronica Anderson, Host, Functional Medicine Specialist and Medical Intuitive interviews Karen BK Chan about Sex, Body Shaming and Pornography.

How comfortable are you with your sexuality? Sex and emotional literacy educator Karen BK Chan has taught and written about sex, sexuality, and emotional intelligence for over 18 years. She is dedicated to having conversations about sexuality that are real, transformative, and kind.

In this episode, Karen shares ways you can engage with your sexuality and feel comfortable with yourself. She also talks about body shaming, pornography, and male emotions. Listen to the end for platforms that can teach you how to adopt a positive attitude about sex education.

Listen to episode 42 on iTunes here or subscribe on your favorite podcast app.

 

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42: Show Notes


Dr. Veronica Anderson’s Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/drveronicaanderson/

https://www.facebook.com/drveronicaanderson/

https://twitter.com/DrVeronicaEyeMD?lang=en

https://www.pinterest.com/drveronicaeyemd/?eq=dr.%20veronica&etslf=14837

https://www.instagram.com/drveronica/?hl=en

 

Discussed:

Jam – Karen’s YouTube video 
13 Ways to Woo a Clitoris – Karen’s Blog

 

Time Stamps:

01:30 – Learning about sex

06:13 – Becoming a sex educator

08:08 – People’s biggest shame

09:10 – What is normal?

12:12-  Saving yourself

14:01 – Engaging with your sexuality

18:20 – Body shaming & pornography

21:00 – Male emotions

23:55 – Feminist porn

 

Full Transcript:

Female VO: Welcome to the Wellness Revolution Podcast, the radio show all about wellness in your mind, body, spirit, personal growth, sex and relationships. Stay tuned for weekly interviews featuring guests that have achieved physical, mental and spiritual health in their lives.

If you’d like to have access to our entire back catalog visit www.drveronica.com for instant access. And here’s your host, Dr. Veronica.

Dr. Veronica:  Today we are going to talk about what people really want to talk about because once you love if your doctor would tell you something about how to have sex and how to have good sex and sex with integrity that’s emotionally honest that’s what we are going to talk about in this next segment on wellness for the real world.  We are going to talk about what makes the world go round or what at least keeps us going as a human race.  So let me introduce also to my co-host Russell.  Are you still there Russell?

Russell: I am here Veronica.  My doctor told me how to have sex and I never listened.

Dr. Veronica:  Are you going to tell me about safe sex.

Russell: But just wait a minute, that’s another topic.  No I wasn’t talking about sex sex, no.  Why would I talk to my doctor about that?

Dr. Veronica:  Alright we are not going off on this …..0:01:32.6 because it’s a really mucky territory here.  But, Russell how did you learn about sex?  Did mum and dad sit you down?

Russell: Well, the way mum and dad did like those big things with me, you know, like the birds and the bees and earlier on my demanding to know about the N word and what that meant that is a whole other story.  Any way when I learned about the birds and the bees, they didn’t do it themselves, they sent my big brother Al to take me for a walk and I always knew when my big brother took me for a walk there was something up and sure enough he gave me these blocks, you know, these little blocks that explain what goes where and what those organs are.  What I found was really fascinating but I also sort of already knew it.

Dr. Veronica: How old were you when your brother gave you the talk?

Russell: I suppose I was about ten which sounds terribly old in today’s world, right?

Dr. Veronica:  Well, but you know a lot of parents don’t say anything and of course they would think ten is actually young because it is prepubescent but nine ten is probably you should be learning about sex from the beginning, from the get go because it’s just part of life and learning about your genitalia and one of the, you know, what I learn from talking to people who have been sexually abused when I ask them how do you feel like could this have prevented and all around is, if I just knew about sex and what was right and wrong it sort of felt wrong when somebody was doing something but I wasn’t quite sure and it was scary and forbidden and bla, bla, bla.

And so I am one of those people, my mum is my guru.  So my mother used to read Dr Seuss books with us when we were little and we also had the life cycle books. So we would read Dr. Seuss and some life cycle and this started ever since I can remember, ever since I can remember, seriously.

Russell: You had sex education from Dr. Seuss books?

Dr. Veronica:  come on, not Dr. Seuss boots but we would read Dr. Seuss, we read a Cat in the Hat and sex education. The Cat in the Hat or Green Eggs and Ham and sex education

Russell: I see, I see, they just worked it into your diet.

Dr. Veronica:  They worked it in and then when we finished reading the series and it was four books, they were red and gray I will never forget them, my mother gave me and my sister these books to take up to our room so whenever we had a question we could look this up after she had given us. but she also gave us education on what relationship should look like and, you know, about what is appropriate touching and not appropriate touching and all that other type of relationships types, information that is rare for parents to give.  I think parents believe if we don’t talk about it then they are not going to do it and I have got to tell you the people that go absolutely bonkers wild, parents you have got to know this, if you are not saying anything it will be your child that is having sex in the stairwell.  How do I know this?  Because as a doctor I see, I have seen all your kids who are having sex when you think that they are not in school, in the stairwell, on the bus and all those other types of things and this is in middle school.  But, sex can be talked about and done in a wonderful dignified manner if we begin to talk about it and people get in trouble because they don’t know stuff.  So our next guest Karen BK Chan, she is coming all the way from Toronto.  She has this really cool video on YouTube called Jam and so for you that are jazz aficionados, producer …… 0:05:36.6, Jazz aficionados Karen likening sex to a jam session, you know a jazz ham session where sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s not so good, people do what they want to, they experiment, they are who they are and we are going to welcome to Wellness for the Real World Karen BK Chan.  Welcome to Wellness for the Real World.

Karen: Thank you so much Dr. Veronica and hello Russell, great to chat with you.

Dr. Veronica:  So Karen I have to ask or shall we call you BK?

Karen: I use both names so it’s there for you to use.

Dr. Veronica: You guys have to go look at www.fluidexchange.org because Karen has a really cool hairdo, she really does and I would love somebody like that. She just looks like she would know when you would want to listen to her about this topic because she doesn’t look like, you know, Mrs. Doubtfire or anything. So Karen how did you get to this career as being a sex and emotional literacy educator?

Karen: I actually started in the health industry, I worked mostly around HIV prevention, so I did a lot of safer sex talks that Russell apparently is not having from his doctor.  And I just worked mostly around preventing diseases and I realized whenever I talked to people about diseases and their sexuality what actually motivated me the most was to talk to them about what was in their minds and in their hearts as opposed to just on their bodies.  That I realized the barrier to many of the things they want to do for their health, for their physical health were not a lack of information but rather a feeling of shame or feeling embarrassed or feeling like well nobody does that why would be the only one.  So that’s how I started to really understand that the contribution I want to make around sexuality is not only about health and clinical health but really it’s about talking about what’s in people’s hearts and minds.  So getting their sense of what they desire, what terms them on and normalizing that. Most of us feel quite a bit ashamed around something about our sexuality and that was the part that really got to ….. 0:08:07.6.  People really need information around this area and just to know that they are not alone.

Dr. Veronica:  So what’s the biggest shame that people share with you?

Karen: It rides on the same theme and it manifests in different way, but the theme would be I am not ok.  So they could be that I don’t desire my partner of many years and I assume everyone else does I am not ok. Or I don’t desire sex in the way that I assume all my friends do, I am not ok.  Or my body doesn’t respond to this kind of stimulus that I assume everyone else does.  Or I don’t desire the right people, I am not ok, I am not dating as much or I date too much or I want too much sex or I don’t find porn interesting or I find porn too interesting.  So it’s always that people are comparing themselves to what they think is the imagined normal.  So that seems to be the most common shame.

Dr. Veronica:  So how do we find out what is normal or do you say don’t worry about what’s normal just enjoy yourself.

Karen: I actually say most things are not normal, most things are just on a huge continuum of diverse.  That includes sexual desire, sexual response, arousal and pleasure.  And one of the biggest myths that we have out there that we think that our sexuality is quite narrow and music is a great metaphor for that because most of us know that everyone’s musical test will be different and that if you are not into jazz but I am there is not a lot of judgment, maybe there is in twelve and thirteen years old then you are trying to be exactly like your friend.  But most adults know that musical test change over time and what we like is truly a preference.  And so sexuality is very similar, and so I use that analogy, sure there are things that are abnormal if start getting kind of discharge and it has a strong odor and/or you have pain, you know, that’s an abnormal thing to happen in the body and you should get some medical help. But most of the time when it comes to what you like, what you don’t like, what you feel, those things are, or using the wrong concept as we ask, is this normal?  We really should say it seems to be common, should I worry and most of the time I think the answer is no, you don’t have to worry.

Dr. Veronica: Russell?

Russell: Well, Karen, you know, I watched your video, I love it

Karen:  Thank you

Russell: I love your metaphor of sex as musical jamming, you know, speaking as a gay man and as a musician I think that’s really beautifully put.  You know, as a gay man of my generation, you know, I have had a lot of sex in my life, you know, and some of it has been, no I don’t mean to be funny but seriously I have had a lot of sex in my life and some of it has been absolutely just transformational and some of it has been just all about pure love and probably too much of it has been just kind of habitual because I am supposed to have sex, you know.  At this point of my love, I mean, I love what say that doing whatever you do with whoever it is whoever many people it is as long as everybody is having a good time is great.  At this point in my life I don’t have any shame around that but I do have a question for you.  I have kind of a conflict, ok, is purely recreational sex somehow at odds with my own goal of finding a permanent partner, you know, should I be saving that juice, you know, for a very special time and place?

Dr. Veronica:  Dr. Veronica says no, she says have a good time because you do not know what the future holds, so no but let’s to talk to and hear what Karen BK has to say.

Karen: Well, I am going to give a very sex educator like answer which is yes or no because we all know ourselves the best and so we do have limits of resources, right?  Time, money, the ability to emotionally engage, you know, we can do that. So in some ways if you just feel like having casual or certain kinds of sex as it takes away from your ability to move around in the world and engage with someone let’s say if he comes along and he is amazing but, you know, you are so tired from having so much other extra sex that you can’t really engage with a potential person who comes along, I would say yeah.  So your resources are limited and you have to use it wisely.  But I do not believe in this idea that if you spend your sexual energy somewhere that it necessarily takes away from your ability to find love, you know, I think sometimes we put those things in opposition, is it going to be sex or am I going to get love?

Russell: Yeah, I think you are right.

Karen: And like you said before some of the best sex you have ever had are extremely intense and they can be very short for very long term but intensity and intimacy and sexual intensity really are not connected to a lack of love.  Having said that, I think the other thing that people don’t talk about as much but really intuitively know is that this idea your flow that sometimes when our sexual energy is in the flow it can continue to flow but if you don’t continue to engage with your sexuality over a long period of time it kind of, you know, how people describe the dry spell and people talk about dry spell almost as if it’s something that happened to you, you know, you are just stuck in the dry spell and ……. 0:14:28.6.  If you can allow that sexual energy to flow I do believe it brings more positive sexual energy your way.  But the flow can be created from sex with someone else, sex with yourself, all kinds of sexual engagement as possible not just about hooking up.

Dr. Veronica:  One thing that, Russell said I have had a lot of sex, well here I am, I am a woman, I think I am one of those fortunate people that I have had a lot of sex too and that’s a good thing and women are supposed to have a lot of sex because there is a lot of, you know, you are supposed to be a good girl and there is a lot of shaming that happens to women surrounding their sexuality.  So I have got to tell you, you guys have to go to her blog and read 13 Ways to Woo a Clitoris.  Men go to her blog and read 13 Ways to Woo a Clitoris.  So I love it because you talked about women enjoying themselves.  Men always seem to figure out how to enjoy themselves, they learn at, you know, ten or nine or whatever age because everything is hanging on the outside what it is to enjoy themselves and women don’t seem to know how to enjoy themselves.  And so what do you tell women about how to learn about themselves sexually?

Karen: That’s a really good point and it’s so rear to even have a woman tell you proudly, you know, I have had a lot of sex and I enjoy myself.

Dr. Veronica:  Oh, yeah, I am proud.

Karen: And so having role models like this, you know, even to hear it since they let that kind of language enter your brain, I think it’s already doing something and then keep following and looking for those kinds of script and role models really help, it hinges our internal landscape, so that’s one piece.  So continue to listen to your show is my advice.  Another piece is that, it’s really, because it’s not an even playing field or we are starting sort of a, how do you say, in the negative, right?  In order to get to be a woman who you enjoy herself sexually you almost have to fight uphill a little bit.  And so that comes from some critical analysis and to say no, you know, we still get a raw deal here and some of the things that girls and women get told, you know, around how we have to know how we look and how we are received at all times, to be beautiful, attractive, pleasant people.  Those things actually are the exact things that disallow a woman to really surrender to how she is feeling inside her body.  It places the perspective of herself on the outside.  So we are really clear on how we are received by other people and it’s harder to be within ourselves and what I like to call her first person sex versus her third person sex.  It is very common that women I talk to will agree that when they are having sex they know what they look like, you know, what their best side is, are they leaning back just so but not too much so that their breasts don’t look flattened or something like that.  And it’s a very common experience that we are outside of ourselves and if we are outside of ourselves during sex most of the time we are actually unable to fully engage with our pleasure and our desires.  So the practice of getting behind your open eyes to back into your body will be one of the ways and you can do that through everything from mindfulness practice during sexual encounters to starting to work on forgiving your humanity, you know, forgiving yourself that you are actually an imperfect human being as all human beings are.  And so that kind of emotional work, that kind of mental work actually changes then how we can be physically.

Dr. Veronica: I believe that women are much more critical of each other in their body than men are and so, you know, if you realize that, I just think that, you know, we talk about things like body shaming and I saw a woman on Facebook, a college student aged woman who was a particular weight that wasn’t a size zero zero and, you know, she was going out there and putting on clothes that people think that if you are large you are not supposed to put on and to get over this body shaming.  But it’s women who body shame each other it seems, whereas, I have found that men appreciate women in all kinds of forms, they appreciate, you know, big, small, little chest, big chest, I think that men are just appreciative generally and they don’t expect us to look like porn stars, they take us more for who we are than we as women take ourselves.  Is that something that you found to be true?

Karen: I found that these kinds of ideas get expressed differently.  So the limitations that I am seeing in young men for example because of how available online porn is and how so much of the dominance online porn right now women have no pubic hair for example, that when young men are seeing their female partners with pubic hair they are freaking out a little bit, they say I don’t know what is going on here.  And so there is certainly this media images, porn images that’s available shape our desires, right? And so when the reality doesn’t match that imagined body people do have a reaction. So there is that kind of expectation of what women look like, there is also a lot of expectation and just simply a lack of knowledge about how women actually respond because, especially for people who have seen a lot of porn, the women don’t actually respond in a real way, you know, certain things that you do to her body that are either not pleasant at all or only slightly pleasurable that she might respond because the performance is extremely ecstatic for her.  And so that’s something we are running into where people take what they see important and then try to apply it onto real life women and it’s not working and then realize women feel some pressure to perform.  But we are also seeing this kind of limitations on men.  So what men expect to be like that unreal and nonhuman besides, you know, having a very large penis for example that’s heard easily and all the time and for just the amount of time that the woman wants or whoever her sexual partner is a male or a woman is that men are not allowed to be fully emotional.  So this gets into the aspect of the word emotional retricieve, emotional intelligence and so as much as we say men we want you to have feelings and talk about your feelings, I want to know what is going on in your mind and stop all to make it up.  When men actually start to show their vulnerability often as women we don’t know how to handle it because we have come to not expect this as men and we of course have internalized the same messages that a man who does that is weak or disgusting or completely hard to stomach.  So we all actually have to do a lot of work, men, women, every gender we have to do a lot of work to really be clear, these are the parameters that gender structures have set on us and have changed and moved our minds into. And so when I do have a gut reaction to a man who is crying and I don’t really feel like just hugging him and what I want to do is walk away from him, I have to recognize this is gender condition and while a man might look at a woman and say wow, those hairy legs or super hairy, you look like my legs.  You know, and I find that revolting or whatever he might be thinking really important that should be like ok, catching myself my erotic life has been shaped by a lot of images and ideas.

Dr. Veronica:  Yes, I think for women and men we have to know men we have to know more of what is the spectrum.  And so for instance in our culture a lot of men are circumcised and a lot of women have not seen uncircumcised men, whether it will be erect or none erect. Now, as a physician, I became an eye doctor originally because I was like I have enough penises I don’t want to see anymore penises because I have seen it all in my medical training.  Ok, so where do you recommend people go to find out healthy attitudes about sex and sex education?  Of course go to www.fluidexchange.org again and see Karen BK but where else do you tell people to go to look?

Karen: There are a number of great resources and online is one of the easiest, cheapest, most accessible places, so looking out different blogs, if you look at sex positive as a keyword for blogs and vlogs, there are many many amazing people who are making short videos and writing articles about sexuality from a body positive, sex positive way and that is a concept that is not familiar to a lot of people, sex positivity, it might just seem like you are being intersex, sex positivity is not actually that, it actually means I am going to take a positive attitude about sexuality and human sexuality but also critically and understand that putting sex on everything and putting a pair of breasts on top of a car, you know, to sell the car is not actually our sex negative things.  …….. 0:24:52.3 negatively about women, about men and so on.  So I would definitely encourage people to look online and also there is a really genre of film right now called feminist porn and you don’t have to be a feminist to watch feminist porn unlike what many people are mistaken, feminist porn is not about feminist having sex and not only about women having sex but it’s porn that’s made from a point of view that might be different from the dominant point of view, it’s meant with explicit consent, so if it’s a kinky seen where there is power exchange often feminist porn will actually show you the point where the players sit down and talk about what they want to do to each other and what they want the other people to do to them.

Dr. Veronica:  And so on that note we have to wind down, this is Wellness for the Real World and we were talking to Karen BK Chan, www.fluidexchage.com here YouTube video on Jam. I thank you Karen on being on Wellness for the Real World.  Think about it we just finished the show talking about feminist porn, where else can you get this.

Female VO: Thank you for listening to the Wellness Revolution Podcast. If you want to hear more on how to bring wellness into your life visit www.drveronica.com. See you all next week. Take care.

 

 

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Medical Intuitive, Functional Medicine Doctor, Functional Medicine New York, ManhattanDr. Veronica Anderson is an MD, Functional Medicine practitioner, Homeopath. and Medical Intuitive. As a national speaker and designer of the Functional Fix and Rejuvenation Journey programs, she helps people who feel like their doctors have failed them. She advocates science-based natural, holistic, and complementary treatments to address the root cause of disease. Dr. Veronica is a highly-sought guest on national television and syndicated radio and hosts her own radio show, Wellness for the REAL World, on FOX Sports 920 AM “the Jersey” on Mondays at 7:00 pm ET.

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